European Triode Festival 2015

Alberto · November 26, 2015 at 12:20

Hace unos días, en Dinamarca, se llevó a cabo la edición 15 del European Triode Festival. Un festín para fabricantes y apasionados del HUM valvular.
Como es característico, se entabló un duelo. Este año correspondió a las fuentes poder.

http://www.triodefestival.net/index.php?page=etf-15-shootout

The ETF2015 Shootout - Power Supplies!
It has become a tradition to have a shootout, and we will have one this year as well.

You have heard all the quotes:

“It’s all in the power supply…”

“An amplifer is just a modulated power supply”

and so on and so on…

So here’s the chance to showcase that badass synchronous rectification scheme, display the virtues of a battery supply, demonstrate that a purely passive approach with a Dunker Factor out of this world is still the best way, build a superbly regulated supply or anything in between or off the charts.

To participate you must build a power supply for the B+ of a line stage. The line stage will be a simple Class A SE DHT running with filament bias and an output transformer.

Idle current will be 7.5mA per channel. The participant has the choice of a common supply for both channels or to provide a dual supply. As the circuit is Single Ended there will of course be a current variation according to the signal. This will be no more than +/- 3mA per channel.

Qualification
This may be the most “accessible” shootout in recent years, so to keep it interesting we would like to make sure the participating power supplies represent as many different approaches as possible. So if you want to participate, please send a brief description of your plans to us, so we can put together a diverse field of power supplies. Provisionary deadline for sending in descriptions is 1st of september.

UPDATE - fully booked! No more entries accepted, sorry.

The format of the shootout:

There will be a maximum of 16 participants.
For each “match” the two competing power supplies will both be connected to a “switchboard” where one supply is driving a dummy load and the other is driving the line stage. This way all the gas tubes and antique panel meters will not give away which supply is actually in service.
Connection to the switchboard will be done with standard test leads with 4mm banana plugs
We promise to provide a varied programme of music
We also promise to include some fun tracks :-)

Demands:

Adequately fused (safety first!)
150 Volts DC +/- 5V at a load current of 15mA (or 2 x 150VDC @ 7.5mA)
Output terminals must be 4mm banana sockets (1 or 2 sets, RED for +150VDC, BLACK for gnd)
If mains powered, it must run off single phase 230VAC/50Hz
If mains powered, install an IEC inlet or hook up mains cable of 2 meters with Schuko plug if you want something special
If warmup is required/desired the power supply must:
- have a built in dummy load if required for safe warmup and idling
- have a safe switch that disconnects/connects the output terminals so that the running supply can be hooked up to the switchboard with no voltage on the output terminals

Remember - this should be fun and if we are lucky educating! All these rules are not written to make it too serious, just to make it worth your time :-)

After the shootout the line stage will be available for use in the various systems if someone want to listen to more power supplies on it.

Participant list (updated november 4th)

John Doe (Real name known by organizers), Passive supply
Manfred Huber, Passive supply
Michael Ulbrich, Passive supply, LR filter with no C
Frank Blöhbaum, No R and No C, wires+tubes+iron only
Jerome Falampin, VR tube shunt
Jan Didden, Series regulator
Hirokuni Michimori, Series regulator
Jack Pieterson, Double Series regulator
Yves Monmagnon/Pascal Benoist, MOSFET shunt regulator, no C
Pete Millett, Switching supply
Andreas Schwarz, Less than 10$ supply
Guido Tent, Hybrid (probably shunt)
Jeffrey Jackson & Dave Slagle, Mercury and nickel
Stephan Götze, Dual mono series regulator
Arjen Verhoeff
Pierre-François Brand, no (or low) C

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:15 por hectori

MartinV56 · November 26, 2015 at 16:24

Gracias Alberto!

hectori · November 26, 2015 at 16:30

Gracias Alberto!

Buen aporte Alberto, lo estaba siguiendo desde el sitio de Thomas, y me pareció excelente... fanáticos si, pero que bueno ese tipo de reuniones con amigos del diy con pasión por la música y los equipos, sin marcas ni intereses comerciales de por medio, no es una feria, es una reunión de amigos.

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:15 por hectori

Alberto · November 26, 2015 at 21:51

Gracias Alberto!

Sabía que te interesaría Martin. ¿qué me dices del sistema principal, donde se realizaron pruebas?
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iDbn-3v0zw&feature=youtu.be[/media]
o del que presentó Mayer o los "Noruegos":
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEgowLolxc&feature=youtu.be[/media]

fanáticos si, pero que bueno ese tipo de reuniones con amigos del diy con pasión por la música y los equipos, sin marcas ni intereses comerciales de por medio, no es una feria, es una reunión de amigos.

exacto Hector. Ese es el punto. He tenido contacto con varios de los participantes y nunca me han vendido la pomá ni directa ni sutilmente para que les compre. Siempre se mantienen en el terreno técnico y por lo general con mucha buena onda y dispuestos a ayudar con su experiencia.
Frank Schröder

el buen Pete Millet (izq.):

Explicación del duelo:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytZtwCDGto&feature=youtu.be[/media]

Estuve justo unos días despúés de la versión 14. Ojalá pueda coincidir alguna vez.
Saludos

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:15 por hectori

MartinV56 · November 27, 2015 at 02:10

En alguna oportunidad hablé con la gente de ETF, excelentes sistemas, todo un placer

Alberto · November 30, 2015 at 20:07

Yo aquí disfrutando de mi humilde Audion Sterling EL-34.

Hola htito, apuesto a que suenan super. saludos

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Este es el reporte de la revista en línea TNT Audio

European Triode Festival 2015 Report

Horns, Horns, Crazy Horns

Reporter: Hartmut Quaschik - TNT Germany
The ETF 2015 took place Nov 12th to 15th, 2015 in Tisvildeleje, Denmark
Report: November, 2015
Website with lots of information Triode Festival

Introduction
The European Triode Festival, or short ETF, has been in institution in the European Do-It-Yourself community, since 2000, that was the year it once started. This year, the ETF was back again in Denmark, after three years in Berlin. Accomodation was a holiday resort, so more than 120 people took the chance to get in.

Gatherings
This is what the ETFs are all about: social contacts and exchange of ideas. Yeah!

Shootout
Following a long tradition, there must be shootout at an ETF. This year power supplies for a tube line stage are tested against each other.

The candidates were examined in a listening test, with two musical pieces, in A-B-B-A order. So first candidate with first track, then second candidate with first track, then second candidate with second track, and at last first candidate with second track. After each such a listening, the audience had to vote for a preference of A or B.

The Band
Like on every ETF, a live band had to play on Friday. This year, Thilde Fjord Kvartet from Denmark played Jazz standards for our ears.

Thilde Fjord Kvartet playing Nature Boy

Thilde Fjord Kvartet playing In the Old Country

Setups: Joachim Gerhard
Joachim presented his hat-phone with real fullrange speakers playing. This had really a powerful sound. Please note, you must have an appropriate equalisation for the fullrange speakers.

Setups: Andrej Staltmanis
Andrej had not only his beautiful Reed turntable and tonearms in his setup, but also vintage Odeon horn speakers, as well as DAC and amplification from Siberia (really!). Frank Schroeder inserted his custom travel-turntable into this setup, and yeah, this setup had indeed disco feeling. Liked it.

Setups: Bjoern Kolbrek and Thomas Dunker
Bjoern Kolbrek and Thomas Dunker did not only hold a lecture on the history of big horns, but also brought a big multi-way horn setup.

Setups: Frank Bloehbaum
Frank brought some realisations of special tube power amps, like described in Linear Audio books vol. 6 and 8, published by Jan Didden.

Setups: Christoph Kraus
Beautiful Setup with big, glowing tubes

Setups: Martina Schoener
Martina had a new turntable, based on Garrard 301, with Vivid tonearm and Lyra cartridge.

Setups: Wall of Sound from the Danish ETF team
These bautiful horns worked very well and served as test environment for the shootout.

Setups: Thomas Mayer
Thomas brought a lot of his tube amps, featuring a four-chassis power amp implementation with Elrog 211 tube.

Please visit his blog at http://vinylsavor.blogspot.de/, where he presents his own ETF report.

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:16 por hectori

ian curtis · November 30, 2015 at 20:17

Igual es pretencioso llamarlo festival, era casi una junta de foreros, es decir, con mas alcohol que asistentes :lol: :lol:

Alberto · November 30, 2015 at 20:58

Igual es pretencioso llamarlo festival, era casi una junta de foreros, es decir, con mas alcohol que asistentes

festival Del ingl. festival.

1. adj. desus. festivo.

2. m. Fiesta, especialmente musical.

3. m. Conjunto de representaciones dedicadas a un artista o a un arte.

Pese a ser un evento no muy numeroso, no es pretensioso llamarlo festival. Muchos de los asistentes son fabricantes, no es un evento masivo de marcas del mainstream com el de Munich, etc.

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:17 por hectori

MartinV56 · November 30, 2015 at 21:42

El european festival triode es un encuentro desde el año 2000 de diyers de amplificadores single ended triode, sólo para diyers no tienen cabida marcas comerciales. A dichos festivales son invitados distintos diseñadores de set amps los cuales dictan charlas a los asistentes que llevan sus creaciones.

http://www.triodefestival.net/

Conferencias
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/europe3.html

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:17 por hectori

MartinV56 · November 30, 2015 at 21:50

[quote name='ian curtis' date='30 November 2015 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1448914631' post='328360']
Igual es pretencioso llamarlo festival, era casi una junta de foreros, es decir, con mas alcohol que asistentes :lol: :lol:
[/quote]

Pegale una mirada a los conferencistas de los ETF y dedica un tiempo a su lectura:)

ian curtis · December 1, 2015 at 00:02

Puta que son sentidos los wnes!
ríanse un poco, les hara bien

MartinV56 · December 1, 2015 at 00:22

Era un chiste?

Juanzuniga · December 1, 2015 at 01:13

Era un chiste?

the-big-bang-theory-wallpaper-1024x768-5

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:17 por hectori

Alberto · December 1, 2015 at 22:15

Juan,
no reconoci mucho tu referencia. Probablemente distintas cosmovisiones, semiosis, etc.- pero... no es el tema de este hilo. saludos
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin,
uno de los duelos interesantes fue el del 2009, poniendo a prueba algunos transformadores de salida SE:

http://www.triodefestival.net/index.php?page=etf2009-shootout
The ETF2009 shootout was a contest of single-ended output transformers. Scroll down to see the results and pictures.

THE RULES

Â The test amplifier will be a 310A+300B "l'audiophile" (without negative feedback), and the speaker willÂ have high sensitivity, passive crossover, more or less 8 ohm impedance.

Â The shootout listening tests will be MONOPHONIC : there is no need to bring a pair of identical transformers, one is enough.

Â The B+ voltage is about 430VDC, and the primary will have to handle 70mA DC.

The negative tap of theÂ secondary will be joined to earth.

Â The impedance ratio can go from 2.2K / 8 ohm to 3.6K / 8 ohm.

The test amplifier has 4 female 4mm banana plug (IEC 1010 compatible) :

B+ (high voltage 430VDC) : Red

P (plate of the 300B) : Yellow

0 (earth of the amplifier, and negative input of the speaker) : Black

8 (positive input of the speaker) : White

How to register to the shootout ?

First of all, you have to register to the triode festivalÂ : Â http://www.melaudia.net/subscribeETF.php
Â On your registration form, fill the "participate to the shootout with" field with the name of your transformer (brand and reference, or any description if it is a DIY transformer)
Â Bring one transformer with the cords+ 4mm banana plug at ETF

Participants are asked to :

Â Make sure that the transformer is not phase-inverting (but it is not disqualifying)

clearly identify each tap that plugs into the test amplifier (color and/or name)

provide 0.5 to 1m cords with 4mm male bananaÂ (IEC 1010 is recommanded)

Pay attention to insulation problems :

Please provide B+ /Â Plate wire with 600VDC insulation at least.
If you have any doubt about isolation of your wires on primary side, please add some thermo sleeve around those both.
Secondary wire are grounded, so isolation is not an issue.

Before the shootout, the following tests will be performed :

a 500V insulation test between B+ and 0 tap.
turn ratio measurement.
phase/out-of-phase check.

Special stuff :

Parafeed transformers (choke + condensator + transformer without air gap) are authorized.

DIY transformers are especially welcomed, but here again, pay attention to insulation.

mismatchs (5K to 16 ohm, used as 2.5K to 8 ohm, for instance)Â are authorized, but please indicate clearly which secondary tap you want to plug on the speakers, and which primary tap you want to use.

primary and/or secondary compensations are authorized (zobel network or whatever you want,Â providing it is not dangerous)

Sorry, negative feedbackÂ is forbidden.

Â THE SETUP

Krell CD Transport and Wadia D/A converter

The WE310A+WE300B amplifier used for the shootout. There is no output transformer, but two sets of banana female plugs: B+ (red), 300B Plate (yellow), ground (black) and 8 ohm (white). A switch connects the transformer A or B.

The mono line preamp used for the shootout. Sowter multitap transformer for the volume, Tango output transformer (500 or 600 ohm external load).

Â

A 10 turns 500 ohm potentiometer was used to calibrate the output level of each transformer. It is also the external load of the preamplifier.

The loudspeaker used for the shootout : Great Plain AudioÂ 515 and 399, with Westrex acoustilens horn.

31 transformers ready for the shoot-out !!!

Â Â

THE RESULTS

list of participants :

NÂ° transfoÂ NameTypeÂ 29BlÃ¶hbaum, FrankPPÂ output transformer, with oneÂ primary winding compensating the current of the 300B.Â 16Dolinskyi, ArkadiiDIY EI transformer15Hasling, Per + OleSE Silk transformer from Tailand 3,0 kOhm1Ã¸jbjerg, Karstentoroidal transformer in cardbox24Hubertse, Robcustom made OPT by AE-Europe.9Michimori, Hirokuniex-Tango #10887 (special order), rating 50W, 3.5K/4,8,and16ohm,with 360hm KNFB winding26Monmagnon, YvesDissident audio transformer14Raudonat, Ralfyes, with output transformer regarding the terms18Schwarz, Andreasa selfmade single ended output transformer2Terrell, BrianSE Output transformer7Veen, van der, MennoÂ toroidal SE-OPT's11Weidhase, UlfOne Parafeed Transformer 3k5 /8 Ohm Transformer23Willenswaard, van, PeterAudioNote Trans-300 double-C-core19Polisois, AristideDIY toroid transformer13Â DIY grey transformer5Falampin, JÃ©rÃ´meUnknown semi-pro vintage transformer (in tea box)3Bouyer ST10 transformer (in soap box)21parafeed transformer (9H cheap chinese choke, 1ÂµF cap, 50VA toroid power transformer 220V -> 12V) in biscuit box25Le ClÃ©ac', Jean-Michelsmall and old Audionote classA8Magnetics (special order),Â 12Â Meigxu (Mingda),20Tango FX3.56Sullerot, JulienPartridge TK 451910Tamura transformer from a Sun Audio 2A3 amp4James JH212331Lundahl, PerLL1664AM/70mA30LL1693/70mA28Pierre-Francois BrandSpanish transformer 27Pierre-Francois BrandR-core Softone RW-20Â : <a target="_blank" href="http://www.icl.co.jp/audio/english/RW20.htm">http://www.icl.co.jp/audio/english/RW20.htm 22Weidhase, UlfTransformer17Weidhase, UlfTransformer

some pictures of the transformers :

Â

Â

Â

THE WINNER

Peter van Willenswaard (right) won with an Audionote Trans-300 double-C-core, and receives a pair of TJ 300B from Julien (left).

The measurements

Jean-MichelÂ measuringÂ a transformer. Measurements (distortion, bandwidh, impulse response) have been made with 70mA through the primary.

See theÂ measurements hereÂ .

Editado November 11, 2016 at 18:18 por hectori

hectori · November 11, 2016 at 18:22

Y ya está finalizando ya la versión 2016 del ETF, algunas fotos del sitio de Thomas Mayer

Asi suena esta bestia

hectori · November 11, 2016 at 18:30

PushPull de 50 tubos por Canal

Mr_oD · November 11, 2016 at 18:44

Que genial toda la info , no sabía nada al respecto, lo lamentable es que queda la sensación que estamos a años luz de ver un festival que se le parezca por estos lados.

@matador podría haberse dado una vuelta por allá, está al lado si no me equivoco.

hectori · November 11, 2016 at 18:51

hace 4 minutos, Mr_oD dijo:

Que genial toda la info , no sabía nada al respecto, lo lamentable es que queda la sensación que estamos a años luz de ver un festival que se le parezca por estos lados.

@matador podría haberse dado una vuelta por allá, está al lado si no me equivoco.

No creo que sea taaan complicado, no se si con las mismas características, pero algun evento del Foro podría hacerse aprovechando el fin de año, conseguir una sala, expositores y nace el HIFICHIFEST '16 (el nombre puede variar jejeje) hace unos años se armó uno en el GAM, la organización y logística no es tarea simple, pero entre varios se puede armar algo bien hecho.

AudioLuthier · November 11, 2016 at 19:07

Vaya vaya, el gran guru Thomas Mayer se conforma con unos "sencillos" trafos de audio Lundhal, creo que por aca a algunos ilustres gurus locales, esos trafos no los han impresionado mucho..... :533:

Editado November 11, 2016 at 19:10 por AudioLuthier

Mr_oD · November 11, 2016 at 19:26

Cuantos foreros estarían recomendando un up grade de cables por acá: obviamente del tipo oil snake!

Es una maravilla contemplar estos trabajos, que hermoso!

Editado November 11, 2016 at 19:27 por Mr_oD

Iniciar Sesión

European Triode Festival 2015

Recommended Posts

Alberto 239

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

MartinV56 849

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

hectori 761

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Alberto 239

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

MartinV56 849

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Alberto 239

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

ian curtis 342

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Alberto 239

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

MartinV56 849

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

MartinV56 849

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

ian curtis 342

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

MartinV56 849

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Juanzuniga 1.063

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Alberto 239

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

hectori 761

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

hectori 761

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Mr_oD 3.281

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

hectori 761

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

AudioLuthier 693

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Mr_oD 3.281

Enlace al comentario

Compartir en otros sitios

Join the conversation