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European Triode Festival 2015


Alberto

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etf_2015.jpg

Hace unos días, en Dinamarca, se llevó a cabo la edición 15 del European Triode Festival. Un festín para fabricantes y apasionados del HUM valvular.
Como es característico, se entabló un duelo. Este año correspondió a las fuentes poder.

http://www.triodefestival.net/index.php?page=etf-15-shootout

The ETF2015 Shootout - Power Supplies!
It has become a tradition to have a shootout, and we will have one this year as well.

You have heard all the quotes:

“It’s all in the power supply…”

“An amplifer is just a modulated power supply”

and so on and so on…

So here’s the chance to showcase that badass synchronous rectification scheme, display the virtues of a battery supply, demonstrate that a purely passive approach with a Dunker Factor out of this world is still the best way, build a superbly regulated supply or anything in between or off the charts.

To participate you must build a power supply for the B+ of a line stage. The line stage will be a simple Class A SE DHT running with filament bias and an output transformer.

Idle current will be 7.5mA per channel. The participant has the choice of a common supply for both channels or to provide a dual supply. As the circuit is Single Ended there will of course be a current variation according to the signal. This will be no more than +/- 3mA per channel.


Qualification
This may be the most “accessible” shootout in recent years, so to keep it interesting we would like to make sure the participating power supplies represent as many different approaches as possible. So if you want to participate, please send a brief description of your plans to us, so we can put together a diverse field of power supplies. Provisionary deadline for sending in descriptions is 1st of september.

UPDATE - fully booked! No more entries accepted, sorry.


The format of the shootout:

  • There will be a maximum of 16 participants.
  • For each “match” the two competing power supplies will both be connected to a “switchboard” where one supply is driving a dummy load and the other is driving the line stage. This way all the gas tubes and antique panel meters will not give away which supply is actually in service.
  • Connection to the switchboard will be done with standard test leads with 4mm banana plugs
  • We promise to provide a varied programme of music
  • We also promise to include some fun tracks :-)


Demands:

  • Adequately fused (safety first!)
  • 150 Volts DC +/- 5V at a load current of 15mA (or 2 x 150VDC @ 7.5mA)
  • Output terminals must be 4mm banana sockets (1 or 2 sets, RED for +150VDC, BLACK for gnd)
  • If mains powered, it must run off single phase 230VAC/50Hz
  • If mains powered, install an IEC inlet or hook up mains cable of 2 meters with Schuko plug if you want something special
  • If warmup is required/desired the power supply must:
    • have a built in dummy load if required for safe warmup and idling
    • have a safe switch that disconnects/connects the output terminals so that the running supply can be hooked up to the switchboard with no voltage on the output terminals

Remember - this should be fun and if we are lucky educating! All these rules are not written to make it too serious, just to make it worth your time :-)

After the shootout the line stage will be available for use in the various systems if someone want to listen to more power supplies on it.


Participant list (updated november 4th)

  1. John Doe (Real name known by organizers), Passive supply
  2. Manfred Huber, Passive supply
  3. Michael Ulbrich, Passive supply, LR filter with no C
  4. Frank Blöhbaum, No R and No C, wires+tubes+iron only
  5. Jerome Falampin, VR tube shunt
  6. Jan Didden, Series regulator
  7. Hirokuni Michimori, Series regulator
  8. Jack Pieterson, Double Series regulator
  9. Yves Monmagnon/Pascal Benoist, MOSFET shunt regulator, no C
  10. Pete Millett, Switching supply
  11. Andreas Schwarz, Less than 10$ supply
  12. Guido Tent, Hybrid (probably shunt)
  13. Jeffrey Jackson & Dave Slagle, Mercury and nickel
  14. Stephan Götze, Dual mono series regulator
  15. Arjen Verhoeff
  16. Pierre-François Brand, no (or low) C


Thomas Mayer nos brinda un registro de esta versión:


http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-1.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-2.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-3.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-4.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-5.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-6.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-7.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-8.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-9.html (duelo)
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-10.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-11.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-12.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-13.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-14.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-15.html (duelo)
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-16.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/live-from-denmark-etf-2015-part-17.html
http://www.vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2015/11/european-triode-festival-etf-2015-recap.html

Pasión por el audio. No solo dinero.

Editado por hectori
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Gracias Alberto!



Buen aporte Alberto, lo estaba siguiendo desde el sitio de Thomas, y me pareció excelente... fanáticos si, pero que bueno ese tipo de reuniones con amigos del diy con pasión por la música y los equipos, sin marcas ni intereses comerciales de por medio, no es una feria, es una reunión de amigos.

Editado por hectori
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Gracias Alberto!


Sabía que te interesaría Martin. ¿qué me dices del sistema principal, donde se realizaron pruebas?
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iDbn-3v0zw&feature=youtu.be[/media]
o del que presentó Mayer o los "Noruegos":
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEgowLolxc&feature=youtu.be[/media]


fanáticos si, pero que bueno ese tipo de reuniones con amigos del diy con pasión por la música y los equipos, sin marcas ni intereses comerciales de por medio, no es una feria, es una reunión de amigos.


exacto Hector. Ese es el punto. He tenido contacto con varios de los participantes y nunca me han vendido la pomá ni directa ni sutilmente para que les compre. Siempre se mantienen en el terreno técnico y por lo general con mucha buena onda y dispuestos a ayudar con su experiencia.
Frank Schröder
Frank.jpg
el buen Pete Millet (izq.):
PeteandGeaorge.jpg
Explicación del duelo:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytZtwCDGto&feature=youtu.be[/media]
Measurementsetup.jpg

solderstatoin.jpg
Estuve justo unos días despúés de la versión 14. Ojalá pueda coincidir alguna vez.
Saludos

Editado por hectori
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En alguna oportunidad hablé con la gente de ETF, excelentes sistemas, todo un placer

"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier." - Paul Klipsch

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Yo aquí disfrutando de mi humilde Audion Sterling EL-34. :)


Hola htito, apuesto a que suenan super. saludos


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Este es el reporte de la revista en línea TNT Audio


European Triode Festival 2015 Report

Horns, Horns, Crazy Horns

Reporter: Hartmut Quaschik - TNT Germany
The ETF 2015 took place Nov 12th to 15th, 2015 in Tisvildeleje, Denmark
Report: November, 2015
Website with lots of information Triode Festival

etf15_31.jpg
Introduction
The European Triode Festival, or short ETF, has been in institution in the European Do-It-Yourself community, since 2000, that was the year it once started. This year, the ETF was back again in Denmark, after three years in Berlin. Accomodation was a holiday resort, so more than 120 people took the chance to get in.


Gatherings
This is what the ETFs are all about: social contacts and exchange of ideas. Yeah!

etf15_01.jpgetf15_02.jpgetf15_03.jpgetf15_04.jpg


Shootout
Following a long tradition, there must be shootout at an ETF. This year power supplies for a tube line stage are tested against each other.

etf15_06.jpgetf15_07.jpgetf15_08.jpg

The candidates were examined in a listening test, with two musical pieces, in A-B-B-A order. So first candidate with first track, then second candidate with first track, then second candidate with second track, and at last first candidate with second track. After each such a listening, the audience had to vote for a preference of A or B.

etf15_12.jpgetf15_13.jpgetf15_14.jpg
The Band
Like on every ETF, a live band had to play on Friday. This year, Thilde Fjord Kvartet from Denmark played Jazz standards for our ears.

etf15_23.jpg

Thilde Fjord Kvartet playing Nature Boy

Thilde Fjord Kvartet playing In the Old Country




Setups: Joachim Gerhard
Joachim presented his hat-phone with real fullrange speakers playing. This had really a powerful sound. Please note, you must have an appropriate equalisation for the fullrange speakers.

etf15_21.jpgetf15_22.jpg


Setups: Andrej Staltmanis
Andrej had not only his beautiful Reed turntable and tonearms in his setup, but also vintage Odeon horn speakers, as well as DAC and amplification from Siberia (really!). Frank Schroeder inserted his custom travel-turntable into this setup, and yeah, this setup had indeed disco feeling. Liked it.

etf15_24.jpgetf15_25.jpgetf15_26.jpg
Setups: Bjoern Kolbrek and Thomas Dunker
Bjoern Kolbrek and Thomas Dunker did not only hold a lecture on the history of big horns, but also brought a big multi-way horn setup.

etf15_28.jpg
Setups: Frank Bloehbaum
Frank brought some realisations of special tube power amps, like described in Linear Audio books vol. 6 and 8, published by Jan Didden.

etf15_29.jpgetf15_30.jpg
Setups: Christoph Kraus
Beautiful Setup with big, glowing tubes

etf15_32.jpgetf15_33.jpgetf15_34.jpg
Setups: Martina Schoener
Martina had a new turntable, based on Garrard 301, with Vivid tonearm and Lyra cartridge.

etf15_35.jpg
Setups: Wall of Sound from the Danish ETF team
These bautiful horns worked very well and served as test environment for the shootout.

etf15_05.jpgetf15_11.jpg


Setups: Thomas Mayer
Thomas brought a lot of his tube amps, featuring a four-chassis power amp implementation with Elrog 211 tube.

Please visit his blog at http://vinylsavor.blogspot.de/, where he presents his own ETF report.

etf15_36.jpgetf15_37.jpg

Editado por hectori
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Igual es pretencioso llamarlo festival, era casi una junta de foreros, es decir, con mas alcohol que asistentes :):lol::lol:

"No satisface el saber mucho, sino el sentir y gustar internamente de las cosas" San Ignacio de Loyola

 

¿Y tu hermana?

 

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Igual es pretencioso llamarlo festival, era casi una junta de foreros, es decir, con mas alcohol que asistentes :):lol::lol:



festival Del ingl. festival.

1. adj. desus. festivo.

2. m. Fiesta, especialmente musical.

3. m. Conjunto de representaciones dedicadas a un artista o a un arte.

Pese a ser un evento no muy numeroso, no es pretensioso llamarlo festival. Muchos de los asistentes son fabricantes, no es un evento masivo de marcas del mainstream com el de Munich, etc.

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El european festival triode es un encuentro desde el año 2000 de diyers de amplificadores single ended triode, sólo para diyers no tienen cabida marcas comerciales. A dichos festivales son invitados distintos diseñadores de set amps los cuales dictan charlas a los asistentes que llevan sus creaciones.

http://www.triodefestival.net/

59010.jpg

Conferencias
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/europe3.html

Editado por hectori

"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier." - Paul Klipsch

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[quote name='ian curtis' date='30 November 2015 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1448914631' post='328360']
Igual es pretencioso llamarlo festival, era casi una junta de foreros, es decir, con mas alcohol que asistentes :):lol::lol:
[/quote]

Pegale una mirada a los conferencistas de los ETF y dedica un tiempo a su lectura:)

"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier." - Paul Klipsch

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Era un chiste?



the-big-bang-theory-wallpaper-1024x768-5

hhhh

Editado por hectori

Vndo tclado barato, qu l falta una tcla 😏

Nakamichi Amplifier1, Cassettedeck2, ST-3s Tuner, Unison Research Unico CD, Technics SH-GE90 DSP, Technics SL-D33 Turntable, EMOTIVA Stealth DC-1 DAC, JBL model 4312 Control Monitor

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Juan,
no reconoci mucho tu referencia. Probablemente distintas cosmovisiones, semiosis, etc.- pero... no es el tema de este hilo. saludos
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Martin,
uno de los duelos interesantes fue el del 2009, poniendo a prueba algunos transformadores de salida SE:

http://www.triodefestival.net/index.php?page=etf2009-shootout
The ETF2009 shootout was a contest of single-ended output transformers. Scroll down to see the results and pictures.




THE RULES


 The test amplifier will be a 310A+300B "l'audiophile" (without negative feedback), and the speaker will have high sensitivity, passive crossover, more or less 8 ohm impedance.

 The shootout listening tests will be MONOPHONIC : there is no need to bring a pair of identical transformers, one is enough.

 The B+ voltage is about 430VDC, and the primary will have to handle 70mA DC.

The negative tap of the secondary will be joined to earth.

 The impedance ratio can go from 2.2K / 8 ohm to 3.6K / 8 ohm.

The test amplifier has 4 female 4mm banana plug (IEC 1010 compatible) :

B+ (high voltage 430VDC) : Red

P (plate of the 300B) : Yellow

0 (earth of the amplifier, and negative input of the speaker) : Black

8 (positive input of the speaker) : White



How to register to the shootout ?

  1. First of all, you have to register to the triode festival :  http://www.melaudia.net/subscribeETF.php
  2. Â On your registration form, fill the "participate to the shootout with" field with the name of your transformer (brand and reference, or any description if it is a DIY transformer)
  3. Â Bring one transformer with the cords+ 4mm banana plug at ETF





Participants are asked to :

 Make sure that the transformer is not phase-inverting (but it is not disqualifying)

clearly identify each tap that plugs into the test amplifier (color and/or name)

provide 0.5 to 1m cords with 4mm male banana (IEC 1010 is recommanded)

Pay attention to insulation problems :

  • Please provide B+ /Â Plate wire with 600VDC insulation at least.
  • If you have any doubt about isolation of your wires on primary side, please add some thermo sleeve around those both.
  • Secondary wire are grounded, so isolation is not an issue.



Before the shootout, the following tests will be performed :

  1. a 500V insulation test between B+ and 0 tap.
  2. turn ratio measurement.
  3. phase/out-of-phase check.





Special stuff :

Parafeed transformers (choke + condensator + transformer without air gap) are authorized.

DIY transformers are especially welcomed, but here again, pay attention to insulation.

mismatchs (5K to 16 ohm, used as 2.5K to 8 ohm, for instance)Â are authorized, but please indicate clearly which secondary tap you want to plug on the speakers, and which primary tap you want to use.

primary and/or secondary compensations are authorized (zobel network or whatever you want, providing it is not dangerous)

Sorry, negative feedback is forbidden.


 THE SETUP




DSC04025.jpg

Krell CD Transport and Wadia D/A converter




DSC04024.JPG

The WE310A+WE300B amplifier used for the shootout. There is no output transformer, but two sets of banana female plugs: B+ (red), 300B Plate (yellow), ground (black) and 8 ohm (white). A switch connects the transformer A or B.




DSC04026.JPG

The mono line preamp used for the shootout. Sowter multitap transformer for the volume, Tango output transformer (500 or 600 ohm external load).




 DSC04027.JPG

A 10 turns 500 ohm potentiometer was used to calibrate the output level of each transformer. It is also the external load of the preamplifier.


100_1876.jpg

The loudspeaker used for the shootout : Great Plain Audio 515 and 399, with Westrex acoustilens horn.




DSC04021.JPG

31 transformers ready for the shoot-out !!!



 Â

THE RESULTS


list of participants :

N° transfo NameType 29Blöhbaum, FrankPP output transformer, with one primary winding compensating the current of the 300B. 16Dolinskyi, ArkadiiDIY EI transformer15Hasling, Per + OleSE Silk transformer from Tailand 3,0 kOhm1højbjerg, Karstentoroidal transformer in cardbox24Hubertse, Robcustom made OPT by AE-Europe.9Michimori, Hirokuniex-Tango #10887 (special order), rating 50W, 3.5K/4,8,and16ohm,with 360hm KNFB winding26Monmagnon, YvesDissident audio transformer14Raudonat, Ralfyes, with output transformer regarding the terms18Schwarz, Andreasa selfmade single ended output transformer2Terrell, BrianSE Output transformer7Veen, van der, Menno toroidal SE-OPT's11Weidhase, UlfOne Parafeed Transformer 3k5 /8 Ohm Transformer23Willenswaard, van, PeterAudioNote Trans-300 double-C-core19Polisois, AristideDIY toroid transformer13 DIY grey transformer5Falampin, JérômeUnknown semi-pro vintage transformer (in tea box)3Bouyer ST10 transformer (in soap box)21parafeed transformer (9H cheap chinese choke, 1µF cap, 50VA toroid power transformer 220V -> 12V) in biscuit box25Le Cléac'h, Jean-Michelsmall and old Audionote classA8Magnetics (special order), 12 Meigxu (Mingda),20Tango FX3.56Sullerot, JulienPartridge TK 451910Tamura transformer from a Sun Audio 2A3 amp4James JH212331Lundahl, PerLL1664AM/70mA30LL1693/70mA28Pierre-Francois BrandSpanish transformer 27Pierre-Francois BrandR-core Softone RW-20 : <a target="_blank" href="http://www.icl.co.jp/audio/english/RW20.htm">http://www.icl.co.jp/audio/english/RW20.htm 22Weidhase, UlfTransformer17Weidhase, UlfTransformershootout.jpg

some pictures of the transformers :

 P1000230.JPG

P1000231.JPG

P1000232.JPG

 P1000233.JPG

 P1000234.JPG

P1000235.JPG








THE WINNER


DSC04046.JPG

Peter van Willenswaard (right) won with an Audionote Trans-300 double-C-core, and receives a pair of TJ 300B from Julien (left).



The measurements

DSC_8584.jpg


Jean-Michel measuring a transformer. Measurements (distortion, bandwidh, impulse response) have been made with 70mA through the primary.


See the measurements here .

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  • 11 months later...

Que genial toda la info , no sabía nada al respecto, lo lamentable es que queda la sensación que estamos a años luz de ver un festival que se le parezca por estos lados.:(

@matador podría haberse dado una vuelta por allá, está al lado si no me equivoco. 

  • Tri Amp: Bajos: 2x ICEpower 125ASX2 mono 1.000W > Medios: Infineon Audamp24 GaN SINGLE-ENDED +Pre Nutube B1 by Nelson Pass>AMP Agudos: Infineon  IRAUDAMP21 Mosfet
  • Drivers OB Híbrido:  Bajos: DA RSS265hf-4 10" > Medios: SEAS A26RE4 10" > Agudos: Heil AMT ESS Large.
  • Otros: Crossover Activo RANE AC23  XO Digital Dbx Driverack Pa2 > DSP SONARWORKS >  DAC Gustard x16 MQA> > Chromecast Audio > NUC >TT DENON + NAGAOKA MP101+ PJ S 
  • AMP Audifonos: Burson Soloist SL MK2 >  Sennheiser 6xx >Fidelio X2HR
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hace 4 minutos, Mr_oD dijo:

Que genial toda la info , no sabía nada al respecto, lo lamentable es que queda la sensación que estamos a años luz de ver un festival que se le parezca por estos lados.:(

@matador podría haberse dado una vuelta por allá, está al lado si no me equivoco. 

No creo que sea taaan complicado, no se si con las mismas características, pero algun evento del Foro podría hacerse aprovechando el fin de año, conseguir una sala, expositores y nace el HIFICHIFEST '16 (el nombre puede variar jejeje) hace unos años se armó uno en el GAM, la organización y logística no es tarea simple, pero entre varios se puede armar algo bien hecho.

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Vaya vaya, el gran guru Thomas Mayer se conforma con unos "sencillos" trafos de audio Lundhal, creo que por aca a algunos ilustres gurus locales, esos trafos no los han impresionado mucho.....:533:

P11.jpg

Editado por AudioLuthier

"El día del gran debate, cuando llegue la realidad a arbitrar quién estaba en lo cierto, te pasará como hoy: igual que se burlan de tus razones porque estás en minoría se burlarán de tus derechos si no puedes defenderlos de una manera efectiva.

Será como en mi novela: el miedo se impondrá a cualquier consideración, y unos por supervivencia y otros por placer, impondrán la ley del “me da igual lo que dijiste. Hoy han cambiado las reglas”. Y será de nuevo la gran purga. La de los inocentes, los ingenuos, y los comeflores."

Javier Pérez

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Cuantos foreros estarían recomendando un up grade de cables por acá: obviamente del tipo oil snake! 

Es una maravilla contemplar estos trabajos, que hermoso! 

P19.jpg

Editado por Mr_oD
  • Tri Amp: Bajos: 2x ICEpower 125ASX2 mono 1.000W > Medios: Infineon Audamp24 GaN SINGLE-ENDED +Pre Nutube B1 by Nelson Pass>AMP Agudos: Infineon  IRAUDAMP21 Mosfet
  • Drivers OB Híbrido:  Bajos: DA RSS265hf-4 10" > Medios: SEAS A26RE4 10" > Agudos: Heil AMT ESS Large.
  • Otros: Crossover Activo RANE AC23  XO Digital Dbx Driverack Pa2 > DSP SONARWORKS >  DAC Gustard x16 MQA> > Chromecast Audio > NUC >TT DENON + NAGAOKA MP101+ PJ S 
  • AMP Audifonos: Burson Soloist SL MK2 >  Sennheiser 6xx >Fidelio X2HR
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